Yeah. There you go. So you were just naturally falling onto your helical angle.

No, no.

Yes, thank you.

Yes, sir. Yes.

Right, yeah.

But yet there's people that claim and say, well, I did chest support and rows and my shoulders started to feel better. Right? And so then you have to say, well, why did they start to feel better? Because number one, they weren't you. They may have had posterior expansion capabilities, but they were anteriorly compressed. They lay on something that already compresses them. They compress the backside. They create a reorientation that gives them access to another space to move into. Now it's not ideal necessarily, but they do have more space to move into. In your situation, I would, and I'm not saying yes and I'm not saying no, because again, I want you to feel good. And if it makes you feel good, I'm not going to stop you. But the point is, it's like, when you think about the desired outcome, to create an anterior compression and a posterior compression simultaneously because a retraction activity is, like even if you were just doing a bent over row and not compressing with the bench, I'd give you the same answer. Anytime that you do a retraction based activity, that is an anterior posterior compression. It has to be to get the scapulae into that position. That's why bentover rows help your back squat, right? Because it helps you create more compression anterior and posterior. That's why it helps your bench press because it increases the compression anterior and posterior. What you're going to have to understand is that the high force strategies are not the solution. Assuming you're trying to gain relative motions.

You probably want to have more of a contact on the elbow.

Right. Okay. So, we can look at this as the direction of the forces different in those two activities. In the squat, as I apply my force into the ground, that is coming from central, so it's proximal to distal. Like I have to push into the ground. I have to push the ground away for me to come up out of the squat, right? When I'm kicking my leg out in front of me against the resistance because of the orientation at the knee, that's a force that's actually coming towards me. So the energy that is being applied is a distal to proximal direction. And then when I push into the ground, it's me pushing away. That would be the difference between the two. And so that would be a better distinguishing characteristic in what we would consider like an open versus closed kinetic chain kind of a thing. Because the original definition of like closed chain was when the distal segment meets a significant resistance, which was kind of a vague representation to begin with, because if I'm pushing against something that gives away, even like a leg press. If I was putting my foot on a platform and pushing that away, they go, oh, is it a significant resistance? So does that mean that a really light leg press and a really heavy leg press are both closed chain or is one open and one closed? And this becomes really vague under those circumstances.

Yeah. They even couldn't access more of a middle representation of a high oblique sit. So I was like, well, that's wrong. So I was just trying to figure it out.

That's a perfectly horizontal helix and a perfectly vertical helix. Which ones are the vertical and which are the horizontal? So if this is the vertical and this is the horizontal, then this is my narrow ISA and this is my wide ISA. Is an overhead press more in line with the narrow ISA?

Okay. So it's just experience and over time.

Over a brief unit of time. So again, it looks different, but you understand it's like that. That's a really, really high force. It's just very short. So again, that's when we talk about rates—how fast does that force ramp up?

All right. Yeah. Plus I can play with the angles.

I think I structured it that way, thinking that if there's just such a limited amount of turn available and we're just trying to create somewhat of a differential. That's why the lateral sled drags are great for stuff like getting the door deflection.

That's a great answer. In all seriousness, okay. So if they lift the arm up, what did you just create? Let's create a scenario. They're on the right side. You push the scapula forward. So the left scapula is now ahead of the contralateral side. You've got a delay strategy on the contralateral side. You're advancing the left side forward. And then you say, pick your arm up. What did you just create?

Like them in.

Yeah, and again, I'm going to use the representation of somebody that's dealing maybe with a pain-related issue. Under many circumstances, those are excessive compressive strategies. So they're under compression for an extended period of time, or they can't select another movement option because they just don't have the capacity to do so. Most of those are going to be under high force. Well, internal rotation is where the highest force is applied. And so again when we see compensations for a lack of internal rotation, which would be forced downward. So these are movements that would fall under the traditional extension based activities, internal rotation based activities and adduction based activities by traditional viewpoints. Anytime you would see a compensatory strategy for that, that is somebody that is compensating for a lack of internal rotation and then explains a whole lot as to why people walk in with a little bit of a wonky knee or they get a little pinchy in their hip or they feel that pressure in their low back when they do their overhead press or something like that. So just a little bit of awareness goes a long way. where you can protect your clients from themselves. And like I said, it just comes down to exercise selection, understanding where they have access to spaces and then don't take them where they don't have access yet. Doesn't mean they can't develop it. Doesn't mean they can't evolve it. It just means you got to protect the client from themselves.

Yeah.

Because I know if I go any farther, I'm not going to.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's okay, there's always factors like we're trying to simplify things for understanding. So we can apply some heuristics and rules of thumb, because this stuff is weight. I mean, there are way too many factors that for us to even understand everything that goes into this. And so we're trying to use structure and physics as a guide to produce the desired outcome.

Yup.

Potentially, yes. Potentially, yes. Or you're going to see, like I said, you tend to see a very, very strong anti-orientation. And again, that is because of the starting conditions. So you are starting from a mutated representation more so than a counter-mutated representation. Now, a lot of times, you'll even see this before they even start to move. As soon as they set up the split and you see the anti-orientation and you see the oblique orientation show up.

So in that situation, there's a degree of learning that generally takes place where they literally just have to figure out how to do it. But if you're someone who kind of demonstrates a lot of overcoming in general, the longer you get down there, the more water that flows out of the connective tissues, generally that tends to make the whole learning process a little bit easier to happen because there's less like a threshold you have to get over.

I was driving to work yesterday and listening to the podcast recap from the preceding week. There was a statement you made, which was also relevant to some questions I was starting to ask at the intensive about how we identify—so if I can look at someone and watch them move and look at their chest wall, I should be able to determine their non-compensatory space to move into. So if my goal was to recapture someone's relevant motions and be like a 'drug dealer of expansion,' I can better target what activities will have higher success rates for someone getting the results I want. So I was trying to think about that: with different presentations, where are these people's actual spaces to move into? I go back to that drawing you did on the whiteboard several times of someone's infrasternal angles—how if on top I drew a pretty wide angle, but actually the wide is wider. Over there is the room to move into. The more anteroposteriorly compressed someone gets, the flatter their helical angle becomes, and that's how you have less space.

Middle.

Okay.

Why are you asking me questions you already know the answers to?

It's lessening space, right? So it's an IR measure.

And that's where I do have some relative motion to give up. And then that's where I get turned. Right. If you look at the alignment in position, it's like you see a lot of 90 degree angles. Yeah, right. But these are orientations to allow them to produce maximum force. So they work in a very, very small range of motion. So number one, they have to be able to capture the position. Number two, they have to be able to produce force in that position. They need to be able to produce force very, very quickly in that position. And then they need to be able to produce force very, very quickly, repeatedly in that position. That's how you train an offensive lineman.